Wednesday, July 08, 2009

I Shall have a Look at the K-7 Myself, Hands On..

Although there are a dozen of good reasons for why not Pentax now. Still, I must admit that I have so many K-mount lenses already which I feel sad to part with and they are all innocent! :-(

So, after reading my might be somehow "overreacting" post (in which I have indeed mentioned many hard facts on the current situations), some of my friends just told me that I should try the K-7 myself more deeply and see if it actually could be a body that I can still use, especially considering that I am *still* sourcing an APS-C or even Micro-4/3 "compact" "P&S" DSLR and I have the need to supplement the long focal range as well. (which I have also told that last time)

So, my choices? The candidates are: Canon 40D (not 50D which PQ is inferior and far more expensive), 500D, Pana GH1, Oly E-P1 and finally the K-7. Each camera body is indeed to each of their own, frankly, say:-

- 40D is outdated but it's cheap. It is yet a machine-gun that focuses and "advances" faster than the K-7, though. But the main cons is it cannot fully utilise my K-lenses! But another pro is that it can use my "emerging" Canon glass (lineup)!!

- 500D has all the updated features and is really compact and lightweight. Its noise control is found to be better than the K-7 for all those samples I have seen and inspected. The kit is cheap in cost too. But I really cannot accept that super cheapo and toy feeling of this camera, and the Canon kit lens as well, which just feels rather bad in my hands. And, it's just a too common model and everyone in the streets is holding one! (which I don't like neither)

- GH1, I think, is a DV cam more than a typical DSLR! I don't like the EVF neither but still I think that least is better than none! (which the E-P1 has none)

- E-P1: This little gem is really elegant! It does do AF in realtime continuously under the Movie mode too, which is an almost unique selling point by now. Its CDAF is faster than the 500D but not as fast as the Pana. But the problem is this E-P1 does not even have flash but only a hotshoe and does not have any EVF, neither, not even for an option! :-(

- K-7.. Well.. (I think I have collected many many information about it here already!)

But however, if I still buy the K-7 finally, I think I am still not willing to buy any Pentax lens anymore, except for the need of a new standard zoom, which might be the old DA 18-55 II, which is half the price of the new WR version. Or, simply that I do not buy new lens anymore but just buy the new body as a single accessory to my old lenses - which is what I am thinking - in contrast to what I buy new Canon lenses as accessories to my Canon body!

Further investing new lenses in Pentax is really unwise, owing to the crazily set high prices nowadays, and more so on the unknown future of those DA lenses on Full Frame (Well, now the K-7 yet shows once again that if we want high pixel count *and* low noise, it just means Full Frame!) as well as the limited good choice of better lenses in the current Pentax lineup. (Those SDM lenses are damn slooow!)

I shall publish my hands-on impressions and test results later and soon you will know if the K-7 actually passes or fails in my test and assessment! (Update: Here is my K-7 hands-on test and the findings.) If it does not fail, I might buy it very shortly. The K-7 body alone is indeed not a huge cost compared to my lens collections, both a large Pentax one and a mini Canon lineup which is now consisted of 3 Canon L zooms plus 3 EF primes. Especially considering that all the Pentax lenses are of high prices (not actual values) like Diamonds, it *still* might worth! ;-)

Stay Tuned, I shall let YOU know and SHARE my observations and findings, wholeheartedly and for all the truths!


Anonymous said...

you are so transparent.

Anonymous said...

I can't wait ... ;-)

Do you still have the FA Limiteds to try with the K-7?

Anonymous said...

It would be wiser for you to benefit from the current lens prices by selling yours while the street price is so high. Then, just use the money to complete your Canon system.

There's really no reason to stick with a company you get so much grief from. Switch to Canon all the way and be done with it.

RiceHigh said...

> you are so transparent.

Thx. And actually I believe I am.

> Do you still have the FA Limiteds to try with the K-7?

Yes, for sure. I intend to bring along with my 5D for a brief shootout, so that I can get an idea how the IQs would differ.

> It would be wiser for you to benefit from the current lens prices by selling yours while the street price is so high. Then, just use the money to complete your Canon system.

Yes, but the Pentax market is really small. Pentax users are rare and a large proportion of them just own little equipment and are cost conscious.

Also, I am just too lazy to sell gear as I really don't need the money to buy new gear. Storage space would be a real issue for me.

> There's really no reason to stick with a company you get so much grief from. Switch to Canon all the way and be done with it.

That's what I am doing. I am not "switching" but now building my new Canon system although it is still in small scale.

But yet, if there is a good new Pentax body or even a Full Frame one (yes I know I am *dreaming*), I would be ever happy!

Anonymous said...

Just one thing that I newer understand. Why are you obsessive for FF.

Here is Ken Rockwell's comparisons. Is this minor difference really worth to pay exstra money, and carry the bulk and size?

RiceHigh said...

Comparing lowest ISO is meaningless.

And comparing ISO 3200 or 6400 is also not much meaningful. It is just a comparison of very very noisy to a less very noisy afterall.

The IQ difference can be seen most significant for ISO between 400, 800 and 1600 which are all the most commonly used settings.

Besides, FF keeps the old focal and design purposes of old film lenses. FA Limiteds will still be FA Limiteds for the intended purposes, so as the A*/F* and FA*. And, the DoF is different, too, even the AoV is the same.

Anonymous said...

Did you see this, Rice?

From what I see there, the noise performance is not even good, it is STUNNING for an APS-C camera. There's everything - EXIF and else. A beautifully swell camera.

schmuki said...

Great to see you more positive again.

< And, it's just a too common model and everyone in the streets is holding one! (which I don't like neither)

well, that's a killer reason to use Pentax. Those Nikon and Canon kit users strolling around the streets in berlin during summer really go on my nerves, and everytime I walk past one of them I'm happy to hold a Pentax in my hands.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to your assessment of the K-7. I'd be happy if you compared the actual pictures you took with each your Canon and Pentax cameras and tell us which gave you the better shots :D

Anonymous said...

Nooooooo.... don't buy it. Can't you see it is inevitable that you won't like it since I can guarantee (you read it here first) it will NOT be Perfect. Go figure.
Anyways, any iso above 1600 can be done better in RAW if processed outside the limitations of the camera software and processor.
actually that pretty much stands for any iso..

Anonymous said...

real ISO/ISO indicated by manufacturer!

157 vs 100
158 vs 200
306 - 400
618 - 800
1172 - 1600
2342 - 3200
4433 - 6400

145 - 100 и 200
288 - 400
571 - 800
1145 - 1600
2063 - 3200
4898 - 6400

87 - 100
171 - 200
339 - 400
682 - 800
1383 - 1600
2676 - 3200
5357 - 6400

Pentax has more HONEST ISO,
Canon and Nikon make marketing trick. They are always has less noise, 'coz they lie with real ISO.

Anonymous said...

of course, 50D is better than K20D
at higher ISO :)
because, real ISO are different!!!
800 = 618 vs 682,
1600 = 1172 vs 1338,
3200 = 2342 vs 2676,
6400 = 4433 vs 5357.
isn't it FUNNY?

Anonymous said...

You're an idiot.

Stop hating Pentax because of your *ist camera so long ago, the K7 has better noise than the T1i, check Dcresource, they have ACTUAL samples.

Match said...

I would agree with the price nowadays is so crazy. A DA40 is just double the price 1 year back.

I don't buy the idea about FF and actually I would prefer a ASP-C which provides a compact body / lens.

But, if you love FA limited, I will understand why you would like to have FF. When I am using my FA43 on K20, the PQ/IQ is so nice and everyone says FA43 on FF (or film) is even better.

I just can't imagine.

Anonymous said...

That real iso bullshit HAS TO STOP. If having a lower "real"-iso solves noise issues and produces better high-iso images then HOW COME PENTAX has not figured it out yet?.

Seriously this conspiracy theory has to stop.

Anonymous said...

RH, I've read your blog every now and then. I've also read your posts on PF and have actually even defended your right to have different opinions and views from the holding-hands consensus that's popular around there.

But now I really have to say that why don't you just let go of the brand. Pentax doesn't obviously give you much more than grief and one can be 100% certain that you wouldn't be happy with a K-7. Just let it go and move on.

But I suspect you must have a special love-hate relationship to Pentax?

Anonymous said...

why not nikon?

elho_cid said...

Hey, RH, I actually don't think there is anything wrong with the price increase of K-mount lenses.

You mentioned FA 35mm f2 is 25% more expensive than EF 35mm f2. Of course, it is a better lens afterall. Better build quality, aspherical element for better image quality.

I miss some primes prom Canon in Pentax lineup (like the 135/2) but for that I'm not going to switch.

Pentax lenses are still usually cheaper than comparable Nikon ones.

Truth is that half year ago DA lenses were so fucking cheap that no one believed they could actually be as good as EF or Nikkor. While they are sometimes even better.

Hoya did set a good direction. Now they should stop sharing designs with Tokina (and producing some K-mount tokinas instead] and doing OEM for Samsung. This would put the smc lenses back to the place they deserve to be.

Katsura said...

No, please don't, I heard someone saying:

"Well, if you are an old Pentaxians who have supported the brand for years and own so many old excellent Pentax film glass, my 200% humble advice is: It would be better off to forget all our old Pentax glass in the meantime although many of them are excellent. Further investing in the current Pentax system is just a dead end, very frankly, IMVHO."

Just the other day, just forget about it and go have a wank with your Canon gear.

BTW< I have referred your case to a Psychiatrist friend and waiting to hear the result.

Chris Stone said...

You know RiceHigh, no one has made a perfect camera, though Pentax fans might claim the LX was perfect. There are compromises on all cameras from all manufacturers.

We all have our wants in terms of camera features, but it is impossible to satisfy everybody's desires.

If you want to use your Pentax glass, buy the best K-mount digital body you can find. Currently probably the K-7. Later it will be something different altogether.

If you want lower noise you'll have to move to a camera with a larger pixel pitch in order to reduce noise and improve high ISO performance. Which you have done with a Canon 5D I understand.

And, what is so wrong with running two systems? If you really have a problem, sell one and keep the other. Or use one for serious stuff and one for fun. It does not seem as if you are short on cash to do this.

Remember its only a tool. Use it. Enjoy it. Or find something else. Remember nothing manmade is perfect.


Chris Stone

Anonymous said...

Ricehigh stated:

"Also, I am just too lazy to sell gear as I really don't need the money to buy new gear. Storage space would be a real issue for me."

So for him, brand loyalty has been replaced by inertia; due to lack of urgency. Were it just about shooting, Canon OIS glass above kit-level would serve him well, without some longer-term concern of owning orphaned lenses. That would give him modern stabilization designed for each specific lens and focal length.

My own guess is that Hoya shopped Pentax to Samsung awhile ago, who saw more market share in the NX than the PK mount will ever have, and an opportunity to sell unique lenses like the Panny 14-140. If the GX-30 sells, Samsung might yet take over the Pentax models, as there's enough of a base left to make money on. Samsung COULD afford to make the investment to really step up a PK mount body yet farther, but they seem wrapped in up the NX, with PK almost less than an afterthought. At the right price, they might be interested - otherwise it's a financial drain on Hoya, who will not have endless patience with it.

All guesswork, of course ...

Anonymous said...


Do they still sell the 40D (brand new with warranty, etc) in HK? if so, what is the street price?


RiceHigh said...

Yes, at HK$5320, body only. For details, see:-


Anonymous said...

Interesting. Although the K-7 was sooooo bad, a few days ago, you now konsider buying one.

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