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Tuesday, July 13, 2010

Major Causes of Poor AF Reliability of Pentax DSLRs

Here is yet a recent complaint from a Pentaxian who has bought three different Pentax DSLR models and bodies in four years but is still being pissed off by the poor AF reliability, inconsistency and inaccuracy of the AF of all his Pentax bodies with various different original Pentax AF lenses used in conjunction:-

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&thread=35758153

Sample photos for the focusing errors are posted for times along the thread, which are shown up as solid evidence. And, there are some other posters replied do second his view and the same disappointment is expressed.

In fact, what causes the problem? Why? Below are a number of major causes that I can think of, namely:-

1. Inadequate Design(s) of the SAFOX VIII/+ AF System:-

1.1 Large AF Sensing Areas:

First of all, the sensing area of the AF line sensors are just too large! In fact, it is just so large for the area of coverage that the user by no means could pinpoint the focus more precisely:



As you can see, the red lines indicate the actual location of the AF line sensors. The central AF bracket mark provides only a rather rough indication for where the AF actually measures. But still, the big problem is, the line is just too long and the user can never select and pinpoint the targeted focusing point more precisely. Under some more critical situations, e.g., when using fast prime at closer distances, this is just a real issue that never has remedials. The user is just helpless.

1.2 Decreased AF Sensor Resolution (Possibly):

Secondly, the magnified AF line sensors yet cause another no-so-obvious issue. That is, with the same AF line sensor and module which has a fixed number of pixels used (i.e., the pixel density), the larger the AF area that it is magnified, the lower the effective resolution and thus the accuracy of the AF sensor and measurement will be, for the image that is projected through the split-prisms of the AF module on that specific AF sensor. Of course, one can argue that Pentax might have put a very long AF line sensor with yet effectively high enough pixel density even the AF line coverage is large. But then this is very unlikely as it would increase much the cost of the AF components and thus the overall manufacturing cost.

1.3 No "f/2.8" AF Module:

Without putting a "f/2.8" AF module which detects light (paths) coming from the peripheral of the larger aperture lenses, the spherical aberrations of fast lenses cannot be really measured (but just assumed) and thus the AF accuracy suffers. Sometimes I just wonder, even entry level Canon DSLRs (since the 450D) have had this for long, so as to improve AF reliability for faster lenses with larger apertures, why Pentax has still been unable to put such a really standard design and solution so as to tackle the problem in a more effective way?

1.4 Yellow Light Symptom:

I found that the symptom has not been so obvious with the new Pentax DSLRs like the K-x and K-7 (provided that they are fairly "accurate" enough by themselves for a specific body and lens under a specific condition) but the problem is actually not totally eliminated. To check, just project a white light on an object, fix the camera, do the AF, change the light source to yellow (a 2700K to 3000K one), then re-do the AF, read the focus scale on lens, then you can see the camera should usually focus a bit fronter and then Front Focusing is resulted if you inspect the photos! :-o

2. Inferior Quality Control:-

Without doubt, from my own experiences of possessing 7 Pentax DSLRs over years myself (2 *ist Ds, 2 *ist DSes, a K100D, 2 K-xes - not even count for many other Pentax DSLR bodies and models that I have used and tested), I am totally and 200% "impressed" with the Quality Variations of individual Pentax DSLR bodies (and lenses as well) at the Pentax factories. With different units of bodies and lenses and then combinations, the focusing errors and behaviours could vary in large extents and unpredictable ways. So, the interim solution for we poor Pentaxians is just the Debug Mode, especially for those entry level or older model users. But then this is only a partial and incomplete solution, as different lenses could have different errors again and AF accuracy is also affected by the distance of the objects, even your Pentax DSLR(s) has/have been debug mode adjusted! :-(

Still, below are those Debug Mode tutorials and related posts that I have put in my Blog so far, hope this can be somehow useful for you to "cure" the problem, which I believe that for some users of "advanced" models like K-7 and K20D would still need it for some cases:-

http://ricehigh.blogspot.com/search?q=debug+mode

3. The Negative Attitude of Pentax (now Hoya)!

The Real Evil is indeed here. Just like the infamous SDM problem, what we Pentaxians could see that is Pentax never listens to the wide and loud complaints from the suffered Pentaxians public and has never tried some better efforts to resolve and eliminate the problems or just to be a bit more responsible (i.e., to act and react in a more positive way to their users/customers for the *real* issues)! Well, back to the AF problem, just say, how is it so difficult to make a smaller AF sensing area for more precise AF measurement and control, just like what their old Pentax MZ film AFSLRs in the 90s could do? How is it so difficult to include a "f/2.8" AF sensor (which just point to the outer part of the glass/optics of the lenses!)??

All these are just rather ridiculous after all! >:-{ At the end, the Pentaxians are hurt and it does no good to Pentax/Hoya, as I have been saying this for more than six years now - but still I do really feel sorry to see loyal Pentax users and supporters are still telling that they are suffering and being helpless/hopeless! >>:-((


So, after all these, the solution? Any?? My humble answer is that there is NONE, unless the Pentaxian switches, before Pentax/Hoya is really willing to do something and make the CHANGE! :-( (But Not Just Know how to Change the Colours of a Body!)


Read Also:-


Focus Calibrations for (Pentax) (D)SLR Bodies and Lenses

How AF Errors Can Decrease *Effective* Resolution?

Comments (12)

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Just so you know... In my life I have bought five new digital SLR bodies from Pentax (from the DS to the K-7), none of which had any AF issues with any of my lenses. AND I shoot a lot wide open! While I believe there are indeed users with issues it should not be exaggerated. We 'forum junkies' are only a mere dust particle in the worldwide ocean of Pentax DSLR users.

BTW: I do not believe in taking photos of 2D test patterns. This is only good for people who never want to enjoy *true* photography anymore. Measurebating instantly kills any lust in normal photography.
About "1.4 Yellow Light Symptom:" (which is actually light color temperature issue)...

Isn't K-7 eliminated that problem? Pentax claims that + in SAFOX name stands for additional color sensor to measure color temperature and correct AF. I've seen no complains on that issue for K-7.

There is also one solution that may help with this issue on other cameras (at least reduce range of focus errors) - attach UV filter. Because of UV light one can experience more backfocus at daylight.

Also SAFOX is not good with lenses soft wide open (FA 50/1.4 is quite soft for example) and when there is low light, this soft issue evolves into very unpresize AF (I have such experiense with Tamron 70-300/4.0-5.6 which is good when there is enough light, but it always front-focuses when I shoot in dim light in forest (5.6, 800, 1/250)

I totally agree with you - Pentax don't listens us. I has hoping we get new AF while waiting for K20D, then for K-7, then for 645D.

And even in 645D it seems we have same AF sensor. Points layout is the same. Number of points - too. Sensitivity - same. What the F..?

I won't buy new camera until Pentax makes really reliable and presize AF.
The Pentax AF is Stumbling-block, when i chose my first dslr the af issues did not frighten me, but now i am afraid to take serious order because my gx10 has slow af, i try k-7 and try old canon 450d...i have been disapointed :( , The next k-7 succesor my last hope for staying with pentax. Sorry Pentax, but all of us grow up
I really have a problem with people complaining on the AF system without truly understanding how it works. I was photographing with my girlfriend (I with my trusty K10, she with her Kx) when she told me her camera would not focus on a ceiling in a hallway of a house we were going through. I simply explained to her that the camera needed detail to review to determine the proper focusing distance, and that a flat white ceiling offers none.

I work at a paper, and our sports editor utilizes a Nikon D300. Well I was reviewing his photos of a football game, and the crowd was in focus in the background, but the player in the center of the photo was not. We determined that even if your subject was in the center of the picture, if the background was close enough to the focal point, the lens would focus on the background. Instead, I told him to set the focal point lower, so that it locked into the feet, and the nearby ground would lessen refocusing on something else.

You have to know your AF system, and its limits. A good photographer is constantly practicing so that he/she and there equipment are on the same page. I have a sense of where my focusing points reach, and have to say that while there are less on my K10 then on a D300, they are quite similar as to how the system handles them (albeit my Pentax is slower).

Having started with a manual focus camera, I know how easy it can be to just let the camera do the work in focusing, but at the same time, you are leaving things up to chance to the system. Any self respecting photographer is not going to leave the settings on Auto for an important photo, concerned the camera will change due to lighting, causing you to miss the shot. So why just rely on the AF system? While my 16-50mm 2.8 DA* has never had a problem with focusing,I am sure glad I have a focusing screen to fine tune it if needed.
My claims to af concern only bad illumination and moving http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngUcQUchHEU just WOW!
4 replies · active 765 weeks ago
Ok Duke, keep your YouTube video bashing up......but when someone points out the flaws in your video, you ban them from commenting.

Someone has to feel good about spending twice as much on their 7D....
Anyone can continue to comment about that video, but to me I think the difference in performance of the two AF systems is clearly demonstrated:

http://ricehigh.blogspot.com/2010/06/pentax-k-7-v...
No, not anyone can comment about that video. Duke blocks anyone who makes a negative statement from posting on his videos on the future.
Exactly. I got banned for making a logical argument. :D
I have to agree with Spotmatic and I understand David's point too. Measuring nano seconds on focusing in conditions that might be more favourable to one camera than a another proves very little about the cameras' ability when held in a photographer's hands. Some of my best shots were taken with an Olympus E500 DSLR (8Mp) even though its low-light performance is seen as below par.

Many years ago, I took art in high school and it amazed me how one could turn out stunning ink and water sketches with a humble reed - while some insisted on using expensive Fabre Castle Art quality paint brushes. In the end though, it always came down to the artist...

This Blog has some of the most amazing tests that must have taken hours and hours of dedication to compile. Some are useful while others seem designed to bash this or that product based on subjective opinions of tests often performed in uncontrolled environments. We should be reminded that there is currently only one primary source for objective DSLR testing and that is 'DxO Labs': http://www.dxomark.com

DxO Labs have created a Mark based on 3 measurable DSLR criteria that focuses more on picture quality then gimmicks and nano seconds (see their site) and have tested more than 100 DSLR's in controlled laboratory conditions. The humble Pentax K-x received a ranking of 19th (as most of you are aware) on the DxO Mark and that puts it into the company of professional cameras costing 10 x more.

So I wish to encourage Pentax K-x owners who have taken some unnecessary abuse of late: “take the time and effort to skill up your Pentax K-x and you will be rewarded with exceptional results”. You own one amazing piece of hardware that is the DSLR bargain of the decade. Period!

Kind regards, Dirk
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
DxO Labs measured very low marks for the recent tests on Pentax lens+body combos:-
http://ricehigh.blogspot.com/2010/06/dxomark-lens...

What do you think?
I found Rice's "550D / K-x / EF1740L / EFS18-55IS / DA1645 / FA28 Mixed Shootout!" dated Sunday, July 04, 2010 worth deeper inspection. Towards the bottom of the "Shootout" article, you will notice 2 pics taken respectively with the EOS 550D and Pentax K-x titled: "FULL SHOT". I downloaded both shots and scrolled to the centre of both pictures where the taller buildings cast shadows over the lower building and was not surprised to see that the K-x handled the shaded areas better than the EOS 550D. There is more visible detail in the K-x picture (look at the windows in the shaded areas) where the 550D displays noise and focus issues.

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