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Wednesday, December 08, 2010

Endless Stains on the K-5 Sensors! (and the Possible Root Cause?)

These days, the "Stains" reports of the K-5 now appear endlessly, see what this frustrated K-5 user in the Middle East complains, who is really pissed off:-

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=37111740

I do really feel for him, very very much indeed. Someone in the thread who've replied emphasizes that as long as Pentax honours a replacement under the warranty, it is "just a non-issue". The victim replies in the thread that it is not easy for him to get another replacement, as the stock is rather limited at his country, and also that the dealer may not honour the replacement at the end. But then other stupid Pentax fanboys immediately jumped on him for saying that it's all his fault for not checking the return policy before he bought, that IMHO is rather plain stupid and the real utmost stupid saying afterall! >:-(

So, do you think and do you know, even Pentax or her agents/dealers over the world do all honour the warranty and offer for the free replacement eventually, could the problem be resolved? It is not even mentioned about all the troubles and time or even money loss, including that for fighting for a replacement and the subsequent shipping and arrangement etc. as well as the time wasted for those troubles as well as the time lost for not having a new DSLR body for use and taking photos - which is what all the new K-5 users and Pentax supporters bought this new model at the first time at a premium price original intended for!!

Okay, to answer back the question. Here is the showcase of the first K-5 user whom I first seen for reporting the issue, back to early November. After prolonged "fighting" and struggling with the local Pentax sole Agent and his shop, he finally got his another brand new replacement unit for after almost a month. Previously, he reported that his new unit was fine (as it seemed to be) when he first got his replacement unit, but now he has just reported today that his new unit has started to have the *same* problem appeared! :-o As previously, he also posts a photo taken with yet his another replaced K-5 for showing the issue.

So, at the end of the day, this issue seems to be a real issue which affects many K-5 units as reported widely, even if not all. Do note that some users may not notice the problem unless they shoot with small apertures and check more carefully. All in all, I think Pentax/Hoya should issue a product re-call, which they have never done that before anyway, but Canon and Nikon did for other major issues of their products happened and confirmed before, in the big contrast.

As for the very possible cause of the issue, this Canon published service notice tells it all! (My special thanks to OGL for providing the information of this! :-))

http://canoncanada.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/12944/~/service-notice%3A-eos-1d-mark-iii%2Feos-1ds-mark-iii%3A-oil-spots-on-lpf-surface

Okay, Pentax, or, you should be called Hoya, it's your take now! Still waiting? Want to hide around? Do not want to respond and just know to fix the issue secretly at your side as far as you can? Really? Yet once again??

If this most unfortunate behaviour of Hoya does happen again for this case, Hoya, I dare to tell you, you are the one who hurts yourself most for doing your business better! Originally, you could have been able to sell more of your products but since there is and will be no reaction, the sales hurt deeply - but by your ownself! >:-[ As time goes by, the reputation of your *brand* is trashed and Pentax dies. If it really happens, Hoya, you're the real culprit! History will record that! >>:-\

Update (12-9):-

1. The stain reports have never ended, an Australian user posted his photo that clearly showing the problem:-

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1036&message=37130900

Yet, here is another posted real world photo posted by a Hong Kong user:-

http://www.dchome.net/viewthread.php?tid=949406&page=37#pid11334257

By looking at all those affected photos, it seems that there is a chain of circular spots in a line across the sensor. And, most of them are near the centre. So, the cause of these may not be the oil splitting as in the case of Canon 1D3, but possibly other manufacturing issues.

2. The first K-5 user who found and reported the problem has posted the serial numbers of his original K-5 and newly replaced unit, which is yet still defective. The s/n begins with 3827 for the old one and the new one is 3877.

3. Yet another victim who has lately reported about his case writes that he has checked four different K-5 units so far, two s/n begin with 38XX and another two begin with 39XX. But he got no luck! So, as we can see, the problem persists and the latest batch of the production K-5 units are still affected! :-[

4. Now, the HK K-5 users and Pentaxians have created a name of this issue: "The K-5 UFO Incident and Phenomenon". They have started a Petition to Hoya at the DCHome.net Pentax forum. Let's see if Hoya will respond, but my bet is Possibly Not, as we learnt from the SDM failure case, the 1,000+ Pentaxians in a Petition are just got completely ignored!


Last Report About the Issue:-

"Stains" on K-5 Sensors, the Story Continues..

Comments (24)

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illdefined's avatar

illdefined · 744 weeks ago

a full product recall would not address the "the troubles and time or even money loss, including that for fighting for a replacement and the subsequent shipping and arrangement etc. as well as the time wasted for those troubles as well as the time lost for not having a new DSLR body for use and taking photos!" it would only make it worse.

i know you don't believe it, but the world is much bigger than the forums at DPreview.com. compared to the cameras sold, these are still relatively isolated instances, even for the many who have the problem and don't report it. many digital photographers avoid apertures smaller than F8 to avoid diffraction, and could have the problem and still be happy with their images, not everyone is a measurebator.

Pentax should certainly replace each and every camera reported with the issue, and i'm confident they will. the K-5 is a new product, give them time to see how pervasive the problem really is besides on your subscribed threads of measurebators. not sure what a full recall would accomplish besides completely finish Pentax (secretly your wish?) with the expense of replacing 1000s of cameras without the issue. btw - did canon ever do a full product recall?
endlessly? worst customer service in world?
Not saying a d%$# thing at all, that's what is so annoying, about problems like SDM, or shutter IS blur. And here we are waiting again for something from Pentax about this. Will it say anthing? Yep, definite the worst customer service among DSLR makers.

And why do people have to return it after buying and checking? Why can't the shops, the warehouses and other agents check their stock before selling any more of these cameras, to avoid this, now that it is a known issue? Why did Pentax not check them at the factory in the first place?

Pentax
1 reply · active less than 1 minute ago
illdefined's avatar

illdefined · 744 weeks ago

good work in "spreading the word" Rice. if this isn't Rice himself. you couldve just updated your previous well-reported post, instead you follow up with another emotional and childish rant.

the K-5 *just* came out. give Pentax a chance to investigate if the problem exists beyond a handful of people on the forums or if it's a bigger issue than that. couldve just been a bad batch.
If it is only oil spreading spots, that should be quickly corrected, no ?

Thanks to you Rice, I delayed my purchase, and placed some money in a second hand view camera and lens - and an old Pentacon six + biometar lens for Christmas :)
Saying that, Pentax keeps to be the best bang for the bucks brand IMHO - And I will buy the K-5 when price will have fallen down and when it will be at most evoluted production batch :) !
Best wishes,
Joël
"I think Pentax/Hoya should issue a product re-call" , maybe if you write a real nice letter to santa-claus he's going to hear you.
Common their are some camera's with that problem, I'm sure mine hasn't got that problem.
So the normal procedure of going back to the store, describing the problem and getting a replacement, how tedious it may be is the way to go.
And some will be replaced,
and a lot more people are going to learn what a dust bunny is
and yes someone won't believe there are bunnies in his camera
and you'll have a new thing to post.

I'm getting bored by this - bah-humbug
j viviano's avatar

j viviano · 744 weeks ago

Canon replaced cameras on an individual basis.

I think Pentax will do the same.

2 year warranty - that's lots of time to figure out if you have oil spots.

Nothing to see here, business as usual.
Gazooma! MFzoom! Ricehigh!
2 replies · active less than 1 minute ago
illdefined's avatar

illdefined · 744 weeks ago

i don't know if MFzoom really is Ricehigh, (certainly think he is gazooma, sad he must hide his identity) but if the name is based on what i think its based on, its a great name.
Oh and Egor_Media, ET2, Asa5
bandymelis's avatar

bandymelis · 744 weeks ago

I hate buying (and especially cameras!) via Internet. The SLRs I ever bought, I bought in the store. There you can check the sensor. Checking is a must for me (even if a model is not known to have problems in this regard). Otherwise, when you take the camere out from the store, it becomes your own business - you will have problems proving you have not scratched the sensor yourself! So, check, check, check! If a manufacturer has a problem here, he would then have a pile of defective "left overs" to deal with. Would be a good lesson for them. If you buy it on the Internet, then... nobody to blame.
Pentax will fix the "stains on sensor" problem!
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?fo...
It's problem of SONY's QC - it's confirmed by Pentax that SONY'd shipped dirty sensor sets - dirt is between AA filter and sensor, dirt is on sensor.
3 replies · active 743 weeks ago
who said that? any link?
so many threads at pentax's forums - there is info here. try to search.
But the AA filter of the K-5 and the D7000 are *different*. So, they might be made of Pentax and Nikon by their *own*. So, it may not be the problem of Sony.
Dear Rice, the sensor is usually shipped to the customer as WHOLE SET with AA filter. There are no any equipment at any DSLR factory to put AA filter to sensor. The sensor set is made under DSLR's manufacturer demand.
something off-topic: I have finally received my K-5 and am overjoyed by the picture quality. Anything that is now missing from my pics is due to the guy behind the camera, not the camera itself. Low-light shooting with the FA-31 is fun with the exceptional low-noise sensor, portraits using the 100 macro WR come out great - the AWB and colour response that I loved in my K-7 are still wonderful, the HDR function is now usable even when hand-held and results in very naturally looking pictures (auto HDR setting), e.g. when shadows and sky are in the frame. Autofocus is improved - although my issue with any AF is less the speed than the precision.
I can highly recommend the K-5. And BTW! no sensor stains here.
C
1 reply · active 743 weeks ago
Congrats and enjoy your new toy!
Dear Ricehigh

I think you will pleased to read this thread : http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?fo...

"...
1-) Pentax declares that the problem is in the construction of the glass covering the sensor. It´s not something between the filter and the sensor, but a defect in the glass.

2-) They change, at least in Spain (and i think that in Europe too) all the cameras affected with no delay, just send and receive back, with no cost for the owner (I suppose no post cost...)

3-) As Pentax knows the problem, they are checking all their stock, and from now only sending good ones.

4-) the problem IS, or ISN´T. Pentax declares that once they know that the problem is in a defect of the construction of the glass, it's not something that can change with time, as sometimes we have supossed, due to heat or oil, or something like that.

..."

I expect we will see theese good news on the front page of your blog
1 reply · active 743 weeks ago
It is not official! It is just a message which has been told and re-told and quoted for several hands.

Even though at the end some dealers or main distributors of Pentax does replace the affected units for free, it is just not a news. E.g., the Taiwan main distributor has done that already weeks before. But unfortunately, not every country / city / place on Earth does have the same arrangement.

Afterall, since there is no official Pentax statement on the issue, the case drags on and affected users suffer. I would be glad if the above statement is from Pentax, but it was not!
This is the greatest news in the dpreview for the K5 users and you don't pubish it ?

My K5 will be replaced as agreed with my seller. And i'm not in Spain or Australia. This problem is closed.
Voice of Reason's avatar

Voice of Reason · 743 weeks ago

My First K-5 had stain on it, thanks to Amazon's good customer care, they take care of it and send me another one. The replacement have two dead pixel when shooting video in low light condition, but, hell with that, I don't plan to use K-5 for video shooting anyway, but still feel sucks. My DA* 16-50 SDM die just before 1yr warranty end....twice, and every time it takes them 2 months to replace it for me. sigh!

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