RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: K-3 Too Aggressive Noise Reduction for a Higher Noise Sensor?

Monday, December 16, 2013

K-3 Too Aggressive Noise Reduction for a Higher Noise Sensor?

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3588043

This K-3 user has found out that the default or auto NR of the K-3 is too strong and rather destructive. He would rather turn it off or choose a weak setting in order to retain details. But why such a strong-handed NR algorithm? The answer is simple, there must be some noise that Ricoh wanted to hide! Any other reason?

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+16 Vote up Vote down

Bukaj · 589 weeks ago

Why is there NR? There must be a noise in the first place! You are a genius!

12 replies · active 589 weeks ago

+10 Vote up Vote down

daedbird · 589 weeks ago

Simple - Pentax always got hit in review tests because their NR presets were always set lower than Nikon and Canon models, allowing Pentax only to get 'pretty good' as opposed to 'excellent' for the next step.

It didn't matter that Nikon's NR presets are atrocious, and something I find unacceptable, its about the grain in those tests.

To compensate, Ricoh decided to set the NR higher, since most tests involve presets.

I think it stinks that Ricoh had to do this, and us Pentax loyalists will hate this preset, but there is a simple fix, turn off or reduce the NR.

I really hope that much like the anti-alias filter, NR will go the way of the SmartMedia card.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Simon · 589 weeks ago

Would be nice to see a K-3 review from DPreview.

+3 Vote up Vote down

Catchalive · 589 weeks ago

Yes NR is a bit too much in the auto setting... but it's the same with the A7 :-)
look at the link Sony Mundo provide in another post: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8538812@N06/11180024....
On this page, you will find a 100% crop of the previous pic. look at the artifacts...

+4 Vote up Vote down

foton · 589 weeks ago

Yes, default noise reduction in K-3 is too strong. Well, more megapixels are cramped into the APS-C sensor. That is why there is no need to upgrade from my K-5 and K-5II. I used these two cameras at a recent wedding in the end of November. No one at the wedding ever doubted if I used anything less than Hasselblaad. People are impressed by the quality of pictures, because I use two 50x50 cm portable softboxes with four Nikon SB-24s in each of them for creative light control. This is much more important than having a top grade camera!

+10 Vote up Vote down

Adelante · 589 weeks ago

Why so negative on the K3, I haven't seen one positive post here. I have one and it's fantastic, a beautiful viewfinder, fantastic resolution, great colour and I get to use all my lovely PK mount lenses. Sure there's noise but no worse than the K5 (also another outstanding camera I have). I think Ricoh is a much needed tonic for the brand. Do Minolta lovers hate Sony? maybe but they make great cameras as indicated here. So do Pentax (Richo) by the way.

3 replies · active 589 weeks ago

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Dan Johnson · 589 weeks ago

One of the downsides of having more megapixels (24mp instead of 16mp) is dealing with more noise, on a full frame you can go higher but I wanted a 16mp full frame which wouldn't require such an intense algorithm. For a Super-B (13 inch by 19 inch) photo the 14mp Pentax K-20 had more than enough pixels, but the masses want to continue the megapixel race, if not, Ricoh could have kept useing a 16mp sensor with the new processor for a speed of over 10 fps while not having problems like this and others to start with.
P. S.
41mp sells camera-phones very well, ask anyone in marketing.

+2 Vote up Vote down

Bzrkd · 589 weeks ago

This problem will bother doofuses only — which means most of reviewers — as they cannot turn on or off certain camera settings, can't say their nose from elbow, and don't understand that hi-end DSLRs are sophisticated machines not meant to be operated in the auto-pilot mode.

-2 Vote up Vote down

SonyFFbeta · 589 weeks ago

Is this a JPEG thing or are they applying NR to RAW files too?

If you want to shoot JPEG get an iphone. Real photographers with real cameras shoot RAW.

3 replies · active 589 weeks ago

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Barbarosa · 589 weeks ago

K-3 since now don't have any serious flaw except different workflow and user errors. One thing is sure that 24mp sensor is less forgivable to mediocre glass and mediocre photogs.

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zosX · 589 weeks ago

The guy that also discovered this was shooting handheld with SR OFF(!?!?) at 1/500s. He was also using an admittedly bad copy of a 50-135. Sorry but handheld tests with telephoto lenses for sharpness are not even remotely scientific. With SR off too?? Bzzzzzzzzt. Next! But I knew you'd jump on this bandwagon Rice! Funny how none of the real reviews are complaining about aggressive NR. And besides, what real photographer shoots in JPEG? When JPEG is convenient is one answer. People should be dialing there jpeg engines to taste if they prefer jpeg. If you can't do that go buy a P&S or something.

-10 Vote up Vote down

SonyFFbeta · 589 weeks ago

Anyone care to have a guess at what firmware v.1.01 will bring to the K-3?

I really hope it concentrates on AF speed. If they can get it to match the Nikon D7100 AF performance we're on to a winner. Super fast and accurate AF and superior lenses are what produce sharp images, sensor plays second fiddle to these factors. Without fast and accurate AF there's no point in having a DSLR.

To be best in class and to justify what is presently a high price, the K-3's AF system will have to beat the D7100's.

5 replies · active 589 weeks ago

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Dan Johnson · 589 weeks ago

The issue is about correcting noise, it's there wether it's hand held or on a tripod and Ricoh engineers tried their best to limit it, now we can try to correct for whatever flaws caused it (by using Photoshop), I seldom if ever use noise reduction but it's one of the first things I change on a new camera and thear's much less need for an AA filter, especially if you capture in RAW so the photos can be edited. When Ricoh brings out a 36mp C-size DSLR (instead of a full frame DSLR) it will sell, the problem will be worse, and anyone who complains will be chastised as if they're a rank novice.

-4 Vote up Vote down

Jaz Johal · 589 weeks ago

Clearly the DP forum thread is definitive,with excellent parameters for such findings...... its too late, need full frame Pentax is doomed doomed doomed.
At least Sony will be there to manual focus us to safety and weirdness.

3 replies · active 589 weeks ago

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Aspa · 589 weeks ago

Switch for RAW mode. Turn off all the NR, turn off all the sharpening. Do you job and then develop you images on powerful computer at home or laptop on location - with right software installed. Problem solved.
Working in manual mode and RAW-oriented workflow I am still much faster than many amateurs and some pros (as long as my 13-inch laptop is in my backpack with charged battery). Why? Because I know my camera and I know what I am doing.
K-3 is semi-pro camera. If you need sweet picture uploaded directly from you machine in FB time-line - buy some entry-level model or maybe even compact. Or use you mobile. Facebook-frendly mode is probably there, just find it. Working on semi-pro level you should control you camera and also you should know how to do everything you want without re-reading the manual before each button-pressing activity... Otherwise learn or change you gear for something less advanced...
@Rice High - you should change the name of you blog: anti-Pentax will be more accurate. You love Canon and Sony, you are admired everything what is not a Pentax. In the same time you hate Pentax whatever they do. Why you wasting you time under this name? Kind of creative BDSM I suppose...
BTW - you really believe that other cameras - C, N, S, Panas, Oly etc - are available WITHOUT errors, bugs and heavy or weak settings?! If you are in K-mount system you can buy very good cameras since K-5 was developed. If you are not happy anyway - change the system. Simple.

1 reply · active 589 weeks ago

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pentaxfools · 589 weeks ago

I work in manual shooting raw but I hate wasting time in PP. That's why I bought the good glass. If you depend on PP in order to produce great/good shots you don't good enough glass or you don't know what you are doing.

When Pentax comes out with a camera that meets the enthusiasts needs then you will hear something positive about Pentax. I would rather Pentax shut down than continue to go in the direction they are going. At this point Pentax may just be capitulating & selling to a captured audience. How many new Pentax users are out the using the K3? About as many if it was a FF but they would have more of their captured audience buying the Pentax FF then an buying the k-3 which is an incremental improvement to what they already have out there, if that.

2 replies · active 589 weeks ago

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pentaxfools · 589 weeks ago

All of them.
Stop your 77 &31 down a bit and the PF is gone.
Good luck.

5 replies · active 589 weeks ago

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Dan Johnson · 589 weeks ago

I like my K-5IIS better than the K-3 and now it's $846.95 @ Adorama.com.
http://www.adorama.com/IPXK52S.html?EmailPrice=T

With free 2 day shipping, and don't forget that great factory warranty at the same time.
http://www.adorama.com/IPXEWPR.html

2 replies · active 589 weeks ago

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SonyFFbeta · 589 weeks ago

I think for K-5IIs owners with sharp lenses a better allocation of financial resources would be on a decent tripod set up for best possible stability. I've botched together a system, Feisol CT-3372LV Rapid legs with additional spiked feet, a Really Right Stuff BH-55 ballhead onto which my Benro PC-1 pano head sits with the Benro rails and PC-0 combination for parallax free multi-row panoramics .

Unless you have your camera grounded like this you're not even using the full 16mp anyway.

Now if you use a tablet or new laptop with high resolution (>250ppi) you're really going to see the difference.

Since the K-3 isn't going to be much use in low light and tracking AF is still not there yet for action shots, I think, for me at least, this is a better way of getting the most out of what I have already.

0 Vote up Vote down

davidmanze · 589 weeks ago

Yes Pentax blew it there, especially as there is very little noise there! However there is a new firmware out so maybe it will address this problem!

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Monday, December 16, 2013

K-3 Too Aggressive Noise Reduction for a Higher Noise Sensor?

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