Web Analytics RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: A Deeper Technical Investigation into K-r's Front Focusing Issue under Tungsten (Part 2)

Friday, December 16, 2011

A Deeper Technical Investigation into K-r's Front Focusing Issue under Tungsten (Part 2)

This Post is Continued from the Last Part.

After all those tests and measurements and with much hope in resolving the problem, I quickly acquired an IR block/stop/cut filter to see IF the problem could be eliminated:-



The filter is essential a glass filter with heat reflective coating on it. As such, it is also known as hot mirror, besides calling it a IR blocking filter. (More product brochures can be found here for the B+W and here for the Heliopan.)

A typical wavelength response on the light spectrum is as follows:-



It can be observed that such a filter does reflect red or green light when viewed from a large angle of incidence. In contrast, when it is viewed near perpendicularly, it is clear. Hence, these filters should not be used for wider lenses for an Angle of View greater than 60 degrees, i.e., at about 35mm 135 film equivalent. Theoretically, it has virtually no light loss for visible light and thus the EV drop should be zero and it is negligible.

Now, that's the most important part which we are looking for - the Results! Of course all tests were carried out under the same pure tungsten environment (at the same time). This time I only tested at 35mm of the focal, which was found to have a more dominant effect for the problem than the tele-side:-

Condition
Record of the Focus Scale for
where AF was Measured
Result Image
(Central 100% Crop)
Result Image
(Large and Uncropped)

Without IR Cut Filter, Optical PMAFViewDownload
With IR Cut Filter, Optical PMAF

View
Download
With IR Cut Filter, Live View CDAFView
Download
Without IR Cut Filter, Focus Adjust at -10 (Max.), PMAFView
Download
With IR Cut Filter, Focus Adjust at -10 (Max.), PMAFView
Download

Well, once again, the best focus was achieved with Live View. With the help of the IR block filter, the front focusing symptom has been relieved somehow, but only partially! :-( Now that the focusing error seems to be halved in this case and indeed it even did slightly better than making Focus Adjust at a full span backwards at -10 as allowed. Most possible focus correction was achieved with the use of IR cut filter together with a Focus Adjust at -10 - but it was still NOT there for exactly where the Live View could reach! :-o

To explain the half-failure (and half-success anyway!) of this IR cutting remedial, there are at least two possibilities:-

1. The IR block filter is not strong enough to reject all the harmful IR lights from tungsten and the SAFOX IX is just too sensitive to those;

2. The harmful IR light or near-IR lights are out of the flat rejection band of the filter such that the filtering is not as effective as desired. As such, some improvement can be seen but yet the problem is not totally eliminated!

No matter how, at the end of the day, Pentax must be blamed for the in-born latent defect and that complete design fault of the SAFOX IX system that they created. In fact, this fault is a very serious one and is unforgivable for the large amount of focusing error that is produced! >:-[

Nevertheless, I am still feeling somehow good to find out and know about the truth and then to report in details here for what I've discovered. It is a tragedy for all we K-r and actually all Pentax users after all as it is seen that Pentax created an inferior AF system like this. I do hope that it should *never* happen again in the Pentaxland, for any new Pentax body to come!

N.B. Last time I used an entry level Canon 550D (for a complete month), it never had this kind of front focusing problem under tungsten and the AF had been dead accurate! >:-(


Related:-

Pentax UK and Pentax Germany Admitted K-r Tungsten Front Focusing Issue (But there is No Solution, as Both Clearly Told)

Still Annoying K-5 and K-r Old Issues, Users are Pissed Off!

SAFOX IX Tungsten/Yellow Light Front Focus Issue Fully Investigated

Comments (15)

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It's good someone's making noise about this issue. I've strugled with bf/ff problem with my k-x. If there was solution, I could even pay to hear about it. But I'm afraid there's nothing to be done. Anyway, keep on testing and trying. Good stuff!
5 replies · active 691 weeks ago
With K-x, you have to debug it first. I have used and owned three K-x units so far and all of them are the same, i.e., it won't focus accurately even under white light unless they are debugged!
I have debugged and adjusted my k-x with several lenses :-) For example FA 50/1.4 on my k-x needs +110 at af-adjustment and DA 35/2.4 needs +150. Pretty crazy, huh. I adjusted under natural daylight but under artificial light, even with the adjustments in place, there is still some bf/ff. So should I make the adjustments under articial light too!? :-O This is very frustrating and I'm even concidering of changing the brand. There's plenty of out there they all seem better than Pentax nowadays.
Set something in between then! In your case, it is +130 that should work fine for both your lenses.

As for the tungsten FF problem, it is helpless. So, you should debug your K-x to focus correctly with your fast primes under "normal" lights in the first place.

N.B. The tungsten FF problem and amount of the K-x is yet obviously lesser than that of K-r already!
It's good to hear I didn't upgrade my gear to k-r :-D
And my DA 18-55 AL II needs +80 :-D But thanks I'll try that +130
You should enter a value which is more suitable for your fast primes first. As for the slow zooms, the errors would not be so noticeable owing to the larger DoF.
I've tried making a noise (quite a bit really) now Pentax support simply ignore all my emails ;-)
Pentax are not interested end of story and I say that with a heavy heart because this could be a great camera if this problem were sorted out.
I think RiceHigh is correct Pentax are not likely to do anything about this, and they are not even slightly bothered about it either.

But unlike RiceHigh I'm not prepared to support a company that ignores it's customers so I'll be dumping K mount shortly
That is true, Pentax will loose market if they have lost R&D engineers who know very basic things. Current AF system has three major faults:

1. No f 2.8 sensor, so it can not be accurate and used in low light
2. It depends on light spectrum
3. AF points are too large

I think XI+ was developed for 645D and quickly adopted to APS-C. In 645D it performs much better but aps-c version is struggling even in studio strobe pilot lights.
1 reply · active 692 weeks ago
I'm afraid that you are all right to the points but Pentax has virtually done nothing or anything that is truely successful to cure the problems for these eight years! Sad!
Agree as above the AF points on the K-r are huge the central one covers just about all of the spot metering circle meaning you've a good chance the AF will look onto other subjects in that area at times. Not ideal for accurate AF

I have a film body with an f2/8 double cross sensor my Dynax 7 35mm body. It's "deadly" accurate even using very fast primes under all lighting conditions, with a great working red pattern AF assist it can lock AF accurately even in complete darkness (if in range of the AF assist) it can even lock AF on pure white walls! (pattern effect on the AF assist works wonders)

Question in my mind is..how come a year 2000 35mm SLR can AF accurately, and here we are in 2011, some 11 years later with a camera (whilst it's not semi pro spec like the Minolta) that just can't AF properly in low kelvin light.

I loved the K-r when I first got it bargain, feature packed impressive. It all fell apart rapidly when trying to shoot in this light. Today I got a full refund for the K-r..but Pentax customer support was non existent it makes it difficult to want to try a K-5 even though I now have lenses with no body!
Mine suffer mirror flops with a few manuals lenses when I use on it the original battery. Now I use almost every time the AAs with the holder and never flops again and work perfect, even more stable than the original lithium one. I´m starting to think that thisd erratic behavior could be related with erratic FF lecture. The fact I detect is realted are metering , focal flange and original lithium battery (voltage problem?)
1 reply · active 690 weeks ago
I am sure that the K-r AF FF issue is independent of the battery type in use.
I bought a K-r about 3 weeks ago and like Barry said it seemed like an amazing bargain for such a low outlay 6fps, big buffer, tons of features. But oh boy does it blow for AF in tungten light. I tried shooting with available light at a party with the 50mm f1.4 and it was impossible to get any shots in focus it was that bad. I'm really disappointed with Pentax for selling a model that has such a problem. I don't know if it's worth waiting for a firmware update. I borrowed a D90 off a friend and the difference for autofocus is huge that's very accurate and has no problems in artificial light.

I also tried it out on some sports action and it's years ahead of Pentax it actually can track across the frame and the hit rate is high.
Such a shame because the K-r could be a great camera. I can't say I'm impressed with all I've heard about Pentax support, seems as if they don't really care about K-r customers.
Well Rad man I didn't get a reply to either of my letters (to Pentax UK or Japan) so I can safely assume there is no hope of anything positive happening for K-r users. Bit of a shame it's a nice camera in many ways my advice is to consider very carefully where you spend your cash and with what maker.

I was with Pentax just over a year and quite liked it in most ways, but you can have all the bang per buck in the world (spec and features) if you fall down on the basics there isn't a lot of point. Good luck anyway maybe you'll get an updated K-r minus AF problems.

All I can say is Pentax are far behind Canon and NIkon who are much more consistent and sophisticated with the AF
It is really bad for accurate focus. Hve tried Super Takumar 50/1.4 & 135/3.5, SMC Takaumar 200/4.0, even in daytime the focusing is off so much. Dont think a firmware upgrade will solve the problem. I will wait for Sony Nex-9...

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