RiceHigh's Pentax Blog: Forced NR and Over-sharpened Images of 5D3

Saturday, March 24, 2012

Forced NR and Over-sharpened Images of 5D3

Read these two experiments here and here (Google translated) (by the same person) and it is verified that the Noise Reduction of the 5D3 is actually always applied regardless of the NR setting and that the default "sharpness" is far over-sharpened than what the 5D2 and 7D did! :-(

I'm afraid that Canon now goes down the same route as Nikon for being heavily tasted and RAW isn't really raw enough anymore but much cooked instead! >:-|

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Richard · 680 weeks ago

I always thought Nikon applied mimimal JPEG sharpening. Please clarify, Rice, for general information: do you mean Nikon and Canon apply excessive sharpening, and is Noise reduction always on in both JPEG and Raw, even when switched off in the Menu?

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Ying · 680 weeks ago

This will only ever matter if you use a RAW work flow and post processing.
ie. in the hope that post shooting, non-real time noise reduction will achieve a better result than the real time, on the chip solution during shoot.

I thought you are a Jpeg shooter, so this would not have mattered to you oneway or other.

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Toomas Kadarpik · 679 weeks ago

Do not think they cook RAW with luminance smoothing in 5dIII, may be in video they will do it ? And also in jpg. 5dIII has better AF and better shutter and mirror does not vibrate any more. Hopefully better noise performance. What else we can ask from incremental development process. Do not think that D800 will produce better images from current lens lineup.

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alecs · 679 weeks ago

Rice, get your facts straight,

For Nikon cameras, NR can be disabled in RAW's unlike Pentax cooked raw;'s.

FYI: have a look on DXO mark and you will see a "!" mark along all pentax cameras.

1 reply · active 679 weeks ago

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Warpig · 679 weeks ago

In wich way does this help's me take better pictures?

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Radman · 679 weeks ago

Pentax have cooked raw and it's not great smears the colour noise into the images and also applies sharpening
Alecs is right on this DxO spotted it and it's easy to see in the raw files

1 reply · active 679 weeks ago

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Mr. Big · 679 weeks ago

Just to be clear, Pentax NR does not smear color or add sharpening in RAW.

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Radman · 679 weeks ago

I disagree I owned a K-x and it def was applying sharpening to raw files at high ISO and there was some smearing of colour noise. Also hot pixels with ACR did not map out and I've used other cameras using the 12mp CMOS which did not show this

Pentax should not be messing with raw anyway that is pretty dumb raw is raw, not partly cooked

2 replies · active 679 weeks ago

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Mr. Big · 679 weeks ago

Hmmmm... this is a rather interesting statement. Just to be clear, are we still talking RAW here?
If so, do you have any references that would show this?
I did a case study on the K-5 RAW a little over a year ago and was not able to find any color smearing or sharpening in RAW. However, I did find a slight loss in color saturation, thought it was very subtle and often impossible to detect even at the pixel level.

Likewise, the results showed that Pentax most likely doesn't apply NR as we would understand it to be in RAW, but more of an inline noise filter which would that take place at the I/O level of things.

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Mr. Big · 679 weeks ago

RE: Pentax should not be messing with raw anyway that is pretty dumb raw is raw, not partly cooked

Actually I think Pentax was very smart in their decision to implement noise reduction in their RAW files. And the reason for this is where no NR(to date) can effectively match this technology(I know I tried). Likewise... I think the proof is in the pudding(so to speak) when we consider that it was Pentax's low level NR technology which allowed the K-5 to take the top spot in many areas as best performing APS-C camera for two generations. And so in this way, Pentax's low level NR was a win win. And lets not forget that the NR doesn't kick-in until ISO2200 and so it's not like it gets in the way of anything if/when we consider it.

Having said that, despite the fact that there are many critics of Pentax's low level NR technology, I think it goes without saying that it was the right thing to do when all is said and done, I personally applaud Pentax for coming-up with such an ingenious technological solution. And I look forward to seeing what it will amount too with the new K-3 against the latest crop of FF camera's. :)

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Radman · 679 weeks ago

Right thing to do? Shoot a D7k and K-5 the sensor is the same but you have "real raw" with the Nikon. Not giving a user the choice is a bad thing Sony got into trouble on this one before. Whilst the NR raw is nowhere near as much as Sony were doing it was designed only to pull DxO marks not because NR raw is of benefit to the end user. Of course DxO spotted the NR raw anyway

I'll comment on my own experience with LR and the K-x the NR was influencing files over ISO 1600 and I got better results from other makers using a similar sensor because they didn't apply NR, sharpening was def being applied to K-x raw files no question about that.

1 reply · active 679 weeks ago

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Mr. Big · 679 weeks ago

Using Image Resource RAW samples, the K-5 renders more detail than the Nikon D7000 at ISO3200 in RawTherapee. Therefore, I'd say that Pentax did the right thing by using low level NR in RAW in this particular case. I also know from experience that the K-5 produces amazing ISO6400 RAW files which the D7000 cannot match. And so again I would state that Pentax low level NR has proven itself in this particular case.

PS. I looked at the Kx and found low level NR appears to be much stronger than the K-5 and so I'm guessing that it would not work-out to be the same when compared to the K-5. Which is unfortunately for those who own a Kx in that regard.

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Daedbird · 679 weeks ago

At work I use my K10 and a colleague uses a Nikon D300s. We shoot primarily in jpg, and I have to say I hate the NR of the Nikon compared to my older K10. I am not a fan of the white balance either on the Nikon.....

7 replies · active 679 weeks ago

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Warpig · 679 weeks ago

CCD my friend, the best thing cameras used to have, and they ditched it for a damn CMOS for having a once-in-the-life-use liveview and video. K10, K200 can't be beaten by anything at base iso.

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MrBig · 679 weeks ago

The K10 and K200 get clobbered by K-5 at base ISO: Better, DR, color, tonal range, resolution etc..

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Warpig · 679 weeks ago

Have to get me one of those then :D

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MrBig · 679 weeks ago

AT today's prices, get two of them! - one for each hand :p

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RiceHigh 110p · 679 weeks ago

What camera can your left hand hold? :-o

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Warpig · 679 weeks ago

Mmm, I could buy just one, but I'm saving just in case Pentax surprises us this year or the next (decrippled K?, 35mm sensor?)
Anyway, the 4 year old K200 is still holding after 40-50k shutter actions, so it's still half way there (isn't it rated for 100.000?, what do you know Rice?)
If the next K don't meet my expectations, I'll just buy the K5 in a super sweet price :D

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RiceHigh 110p · 679 weeks ago

I think Pentax has never dare to specify shutter life to any of their camera. However, I think a 100k figure is a reasonable count. Pentax buys shutter units from the same others, doesn't it?

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Saturday, March 24, 2012

Forced NR and Over-sharpened Images of 5D3

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